Episode

#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
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2:13:44
Published: Sun May 06 2018
Description

This might be the most important podcast episode I've put out in the last two years. Please trust me and give it a full listen. It will surprise you, perhaps shock you, and definitely make you think differently.Michael Pollan (@michaelpollan) is the author of seven previous books, including Cooked, Food Rules, In Defense of Food, The Omnivore's Dilemma, and The Botany of Desire, all of which were New York Times bestsellers. A longtime contributor to the New York Times Magazine, he also teaches writing at Harvard and the University of California, Berkeley where he is the John S. and James L. Knight Professor of Science Journalism. In 2010, Time magazine named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world.His most recent book, How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence, might be my favorite yet. This is the first podcast interview Michael has done about the book, the science and applications of psychedelics, his exploration, and his own experiences. It is a wild ride.In fact, partially due to this book, I am committing a million dollars over the next few years to support the scientific study of psychedelic compounds. This is by far the largest commitment to research and nonprofits I've ever made, and if you'd like to join me in supporting this research, please check out tim.blog/science.In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:The fundamentals of "psychedelics," what the term means, and what compounds like psilocybin, mescaline, and others have in common.New insights related to treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, alcohol/nicotine dependence, OCD, PTSD, and more.Recent scientific and clinical discussions of a "grand unified theory of mental illness."Potential applications and risks of psychedelics.Michael's own experiences — which he did not initially intend on having — and what he's learned from them.The "entropic brain," and why there might be a therapeutic sweet spot between mental order and chaos.Why researchers at Johns Hopkins, NYU, Yale, and elsewhere are dedicating resources to understanding these compounds.And much, much more...The molecules discussed in this episode — and some incredible clinical results from well-designed studies — have absolutely captured my attention over the last two years. After wading in and supporting smaller studies, I've decided to go all-in on scientists exploring this area. It seems to be an Archimedes lever for potentially solving a wide range of root-cause problems, instead of playing whack-a-mole with symptoms one by one.This episode is brought to you by Teeter. Inversion therapy, which uses gravity and your own body weight to decompress the spine or relieve pressure on the discs and surrounding nerves, seems to help with a whole slew of conditions. And just as a general maintenance program, it's one of my favorite things to do.Since 1981, more than three million people have put their trust in Teeter inversion tables for relief, and it's the only inversion table brand that's been both safety-certified by Underwriters Laboratories (UL) and registered with the FDA as a class one medical device. For a limited time, my listeners can get the Teeter inversion table with bonus accessories and a free pair of gravity boots — a savings of over $148 — by going to Teeter.com/Tim!This podcast is also brought to you by Helix Sleep. I recently moved into a new home and needed new beds, and I purchased mattresses from Helix Sleep. It offers mattresses personalized to your preferences and sleeping style — without costing thousands of dollars. Visit Helixsleep.com/TIM and take the simple 2-3 minute sleep quiz to get started, and the team there will build a mattress you'll love. Plus you’ll get up to $125 off your mattress order.***If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews!For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Please fill out the form at tim.blog/sponsor.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Chapters
In this podcast episode, the host discusses the importance of nutrient-dense meals and how the supplement Athletic Greens can help fill gaps in nutrition.
00:00 - 04:00 (04:00)
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Health
Summary

In this podcast episode, the host discusses the importance of nutrient-dense meals and how the supplement Athletic Greens can help fill gaps in nutrition. Additionally, he promotes his email newsletter called Five Bullet Friday, which offers subscribers a weekly email with five brief bullet points about various topics of interest.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
In this episode, Michael Pollan discusses his newest book, "How to Change Your Mind," which explores the science and applications of psychedelic substances and their potential to treat addiction, depression, and enhance consciousness.
04:01 - 10:12 (06:11)
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Psychedelics
Summary

In this episode, Michael Pollan discusses his newest book, "How to Change Your Mind," which explores the science and applications of psychedelic substances and their potential to treat addiction, depression, and enhance consciousness.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The current situation of chronic diseases and mental health crises linked to food has created an interest in researching psychedelics.
10:13 - 15:04 (04:50)
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Psychedelics
Summary

The current situation of chronic diseases and mental health crises linked to food has created an interest in researching psychedelics. High dose psilocybin experience might reset someone's thinking about mortality, dissolving their ego and broadening their sense of self, ultimately reducing the fear of death.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The term psychedelic was coined in 1957 by English psychiatrist Humphrey Osmond, and essentially means "mind manifesting".
15:04 - 23:47 (08:42)
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Psychedelics
Summary

The term psychedelic was coined in 1957 by English psychiatrist Humphrey Osmond, and essentially means "mind manifesting". It refers to the use of mind-altering substances like psilocybin in therapy sessions to help people get in touch with their subconscious.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The New Yorker staff writer Michael Pollan discusses his experiences with psychedelics, including how it influenced and improved his communication skills with his dying father, while also touching on the neuroscience behind these compounds.
23:47 - 30:40 (06:52)
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Psychedelics
Summary

The New Yorker staff writer Michael Pollan discusses his experiences with psychedelics, including how it influenced and improved his communication skills with his dying father, while also touching on the neuroscience behind these compounds.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The brain is still very poorly understood.
30:41 - 35:02 (04:20)
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Science
The default mode network in the brain is responsible for memory, emotions, and constructing a sense of self over time, but high doses of psychedelics can diminish its activity, leading to ego dissolution and spiritual experiences.
35:02 - 42:01 (06:59)
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Psychedelics
Summary

The default mode network in the brain is responsible for memory, emotions, and constructing a sense of self over time, but high doses of psychedelics can diminish its activity, leading to ego dissolution and spiritual experiences.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The use of psychedelic drugs has been found to have surprising benefits in various medical conditions.
42:02 - 49:28 (07:26)
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Psychedelic drugs
Summary

The use of psychedelic drugs has been found to have surprising benefits in various medical conditions. Studies have shown that psychedelic drugs such as psilocybin can induce mystical experiences indistinguishable from those described in literature, and can lead to long-lasting changes in personality traits that help maintain abstinence in smoking addiction and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The mental health crisis has been prevalent; however, there hasn't been any real innovation in mental health care since the introduction of antidepressants in 1990.
49:28 - 58:18 (08:49)
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Mental Health
Summary

The mental health crisis has been prevalent; however, there hasn't been any real innovation in mental health care since the introduction of antidepressants in 1990. The use of psychedelics to alleviate depression, anxiety, addiction, and various other disorders is the latest therapy, showing higher rates of efficacy than traditional methods.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The use of psychedelics to treat addiction has been met with skepticism, but the drugs have shown promising results in treating some forms of addiction.
58:19 - 1:03:38 (05:19)
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Psychedelics
Summary

The use of psychedelics to treat addiction has been met with skepticism, but the drugs have shown promising results in treating some forms of addiction. Scientists argue that the risks are worth researching as they could potentially save society from a collapse.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The use of psychedelics in the 1960s counterculture served as a rite of passage for young people which led to a divergence in youth culture and destabilized the entire culture.
1:03:38 - 1:10:00 (06:21)
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Psychedelic culture
Summary

The use of psychedelics in the 1960s counterculture served as a rite of passage for young people which led to a divergence in youth culture and destabilized the entire culture. However, today's society is more open to psychedelics, which is evident in the establishment voices in the psychiatric industry, and this could prevent history from repeating itself.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
There is growing evidence that psychedelic drugs such as psilocybin, LSD, and MDMA could have therapeutic benefits for patients with mental health issues such as PTSD, depression, and anxiety.
1:10:01 - 1:14:12 (04:11)
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Psychedelic drugs
Summary

There is growing evidence that psychedelic drugs such as psilocybin, LSD, and MDMA could have therapeutic benefits for patients with mental health issues such as PTSD, depression, and anxiety. However, the drug scheduling system needs to change to allow doctors to prescribe them.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The safety of psychedelic drugs is being questioned as they can lead to adverse outcomes, especially for those with mental illness in the family, however, proper screening and analysis can lead to safe trips.
1:14:13 - 1:18:26 (04:12)
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Psychedelic Drugs
Summary

The safety of psychedelic drugs is being questioned as they can lead to adverse outcomes, especially for those with mental illness in the family, however, proper screening and analysis can lead to safe trips.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The risks of psychedelics are minor compared to other drugs.
1:18:27 - 1:23:09 (04:42)
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Science/Tech
Summary

The risks of psychedelics are minor compared to other drugs.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
In this podcast, the host interviews someone who believes that there could be a grand unified theory of mental illness that includes depression, anxiety, addiction, and obsession.
1:23:10 - 1:28:07 (04:56)
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Mental Health
Summary

In this podcast, the host interviews someone who believes that there could be a grand unified theory of mental illness that includes depression, anxiety, addiction, and obsession. The guest suggests that psychedelics could work on so many different indications because the brain is a very complex system and the ego plays a significant role in regulating its order.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
This podcast explores the idea that psychedelics increase entropy in the brain, which can be beneficial in breaking people out of rigid patterns of thought and behavior.
1:28:08 - 1:32:02 (03:54)
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Psychedelics
Summary

This podcast explores the idea that psychedelics increase entropy in the brain, which can be beneficial in breaking people out of rigid patterns of thought and behavior. The guest, a well-published scientist and Freudian psychoanalyst, explains the neuroscience behind these ideas.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker shares his experience with non-dual consciousness during a guided psilocybin journey and the power of emphasizing specific themes or images during such experiences.
1:32:03 - 1:37:26 (05:23)
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Non-dual Consciousness
Summary

The speaker shares his experience with non-dual consciousness during a guided psilocybin journey and the power of emphasizing specific themes or images during such experiences.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker discusses how certain types of music may not be fitting for a meaningful psychological experience and describes a personal experience with music and eye shades.
1:37:27 - 1:42:00 (04:32)
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Music
Summary

The speaker discusses how certain types of music may not be fitting for a meaningful psychological experience and describes a personal experience with music and eye shades.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker reflects on a powerful lesson about the role of ego in our lives and how our ego keeps our unconscious at bay, but realizes that there might be another ground to plant our feet besides our self-interested ego.
1:42:00 - 1:46:52 (04:52)
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Ego
Summary

The speaker reflects on a powerful lesson about the role of ego in our lives and how our ego keeps our unconscious at bay, but realizes that there might be another ground to plant our feet besides our self-interested ego. The speaker experiences a sense of dissolution in their identity, leading to a lesson that personal identity is not a fixed category.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker discusses the ineffable experiences that occur during psychedelic experiences and how they allow individuals to embody and feel things that are difficult to intellectualize or talk oneself out of.
1:46:53 - 1:50:32 (03:38)
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Psychedelics
Summary

The speaker discusses the ineffable experiences that occur during psychedelic experiences and how they allow individuals to embody and feel things that are difficult to intellectualize or talk oneself out of. They also touch on the relationship between mystical experiences and spiritual experiences.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Psychedelics offer an antidote to the challenges faced by the culture such as environmental crisis and tribalism, both being a function of ego consciousness.
1:50:32 - 1:55:16 (04:43)
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Psychedelics
Summary

Psychedelics offer an antidote to the challenges faced by the culture such as environmental crisis and tribalism, both being a function of ego consciousness. At the individual level, we have pathologies and at the civilizational or national level, which are extremely relevant to the moment we're in and the problems we're struggling with.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The use of psychedelics should be carefully regulated to make them more accessible and to contain their risks.
1:55:17 - 2:00:19 (05:02)
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Psychedelic Drugs
Summary

The use of psychedelics should be carefully regulated to make them more accessible and to contain their risks. Carelessness is a great threat to their usage, and the proper cultural container must be in place to prevent a backlash from society and the loss of good research.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
This podcast episode discusses the potential benefits of using psychedelics, such as psilocybin, as a tool to improve mental health.
2:00:19 - 2:05:32 (05:12)
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Psychedelics
Summary

This podcast episode discusses the potential benefits of using psychedelics, such as psilocybin, as a tool to improve mental health. They explore the topic through personal stories and scientific research.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Helix Sleep offers personalized mattresses and pillows tailored to individual preferences and sleeping style, developed with the help of leading sleep experts.
2:05:33 - 2:10:37 (05:03)
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Helix Sleep
Summary

Helix Sleep offers personalized mattresses and pillows tailored to individual preferences and sleeping style, developed with the help of leading sleep experts. Take a sleep quiz to get started and have the mattress shipped to you for free, try it for 100 nights, and get a full refund if not completely satisfied.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
In this episode, Tim Ferriss talks about the benefits of inversion therapy and how he incorporates it into his daily routine with the help of Teeter inversion table and gravity boots.
2:10:37 - 2:13:35 (02:57)
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Teeter, inversion therapy
Summary

In this episode, Tim Ferriss talks about the benefits of inversion therapy and how he incorporates it into his daily routine with the help of Teeter inversion table and gravity boots. Teeter is the only inversion table brand with UL safety certification and FDA registration as a class one medical device.

Episode
#313: Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show