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Episode

#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
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2:21:55
Published: Wed Jan 19 2022
Description

Brought to you by LMNT electrolyte supplement, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 770M+ users. Michael Schur (@KenTremendous) created the critically acclaimed NBC comedy The Good Place and co-created Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and the Peacock series Rutherford Falls. He is also an executive producer on HBO Max’s Hacks and Netflix’s Master of None.Prior to “Parks,” Michael spent four years as a writer-producer on the Emmy Award-winning NBC hit The Office. His first TV writing job was at Saturday Night Live, where he spent seven seasons, including three as the producer of “Weekend Update” with Tina Fey and Jimmy Fallon.Michael’s new book is How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question.Please enjoy!This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, to my dear listeners, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.*This episode is also brought to you by LMNT! What is LMNT? It’s a delicious, sugar-free electrolyte drink mix. I’ve stocked up on boxes and boxes of this and usually use it 1–2 times per day. LMNT is formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and perfectly suited to folks following a keto, low-carb, or Paleo diet. If you are on a low-carb diet or fasting, electrolytes play a key role in relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness.LMNT came up with a very special offer for you, my dear listeners. For a limited time, you can claim a free LMNT Sample Pack—you only cover the cost of shipping. For US customers, this means you can receive an 8-count sample pack for only $5. Simply go to DrinkLMNT.com/Tim to claim your free 8-count sample pack.*This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.*How did Michael get involved with The Harvard Lampoon, and what did the audition process look like? How was the writing process different during his time there than it might be in a comparable publication today? [05:58]How performing live comedy is like Roman gladiator combat, and what Michael learned during his seven seasons as a writer for Saturday Night Live. [12:53]Michael shares his David Foster Wallace story, and his own thoughts about adapting Infinite Jest into a miniseries. [20:03]Why did Michael decide to leave SNL and continue his career in Los Angeles? How did he wind up writing for the US adaptation of The Office in spite of being unsure that such an adaptation was even a good idea? [31:10]Why does Michael consider the opportunity to work with The Office showrunner Greg Daniels “the greatest stroke of good fortune” that’s ever befallen him? What did he learn from the experience that SNL didn’t teach him? [39:12]What is the F = ma of sitcom writing, and how did this play into character development on The Office? [44:35]If Michael’s house were burning down and he only had time to rescue five things, what would they be? [53:20]How did Michael become a rare book collector? [57:45]Where did Michael’s alter ego of Ken Tremendous (and Fremulon, his equally fictitious place of employment) originate? [1:01:13]With television networks often skittish about deviating from proven formulas, how did a show as unique as The Good Place come about? [1:08:10]How the seed of the idea that became The Good Place was planted by an outrageous car repair bill. [1:16:15]Michael once joked that he would love How to Be Perfect to do for moral philosophy what A Brief History of Time did for astrophysics. If that’s a tall order, what would he consider an acceptable takeaway for its readers? [1:27:58]What qualifies the legitimacy of a philosopher? Is it when they can get people to actually read (and understand) their work? [1:32:58]If Michael could have a drink or dinner with any philosopher, living or dead, who would he choose? [1:39:53]What two philosophers would Michael choose to have on speed dial for his own personal instruction? [1:43:36]What comics in my own collection do I most treasure? What kind of D&D characters did I tend to play in my youth? [1:49:11]Michael’s most worthwhile failures (and one recurring failure that still gives him nightmares). [1:51:17]Michael is sorry if his billboard offends you. [2:01:28]Who are Todd May and Pamela Hieronymi, and how did they become The Good Place writers’ room emergency contacts? [2:06:00]Why Michael encourages us all to get educated about ethics by any means comfortable (and if that includes reading How to Be Perfect, so be it) where the proceeds of book sales will be directed, and other parting thoughts. [2:10:12]*For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Balaji Srinivasan, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Dr. Michio Kaku, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Chapters
Helix Sleep is offering up to $200 off of all mattress orders and two free pillows by taking their two minute sleep quiz at helixsleep.com/Tim.
00:00 - 04:50 (04:50)
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Sleep
The Harvard Lampoon has produced several notable comedy writers, including Doug Kenny and Jim Downey.
04:59 - 10:27 (05:27)
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Harvard Lampoon
Summary

The Harvard Lampoon has produced several notable comedy writers, including Doug Kenny and Jim Downey. Its reputation as a feeder into careers in comedy has made it a popular outlet for humor writing among aspiring writers.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker reflects on the lessons learned in the comedy industry, including the fact that comedy has a built-in voting system and that many comedy writers have transitioned from the Lampoon to The New Yorker.
10:27 - 16:50 (06:23)
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Comedy industry
Summary

The speaker reflects on the lessons learned in the comedy industry, including the fact that comedy has a built-in voting system and that many comedy writers have transitioned from the Lampoon to The New Yorker.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The most significant SNL comedians usually have a different attitude towards their material compared to other comedians.
16:50 - 22:21 (05:30)
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SNL comedians
Summary

The most significant SNL comedians usually have a different attitude towards their material compared to other comedians. They edit their comedy by deciding if the material is good on its own, rather than just based on their personal views.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
A podcast host shares how many people wrote letters to a famous person who spent time at Amherst in the early 80s and how they responded, creating unique stories and experiences.
22:22 - 26:11 (03:49)
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Correspondence
Summary

A podcast host shares how many people wrote letters to a famous person who spent time at Amherst in the early 80s and how they responded, creating unique stories and experiences.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The decision to move on from a career can be tough, but for this person, a mix of personal and professional reasons made it clear that it was time for a change.
26:11 - 34:02 (07:50)
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Career Change
Summary

The decision to move on from a career can be tough, but for this person, a mix of personal and professional reasons made it clear that it was time for a change. They decided to move to LA to be with their long-distance girlfriend, and embark on a new project adapting a hefty book into a mini-series.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The process of pitching your pilot to different networks and production houses is an exhausting treadmill of meetings with executives, but every once in a while, a meeting will stick out and seem special.
34:02 - 41:37 (07:35)
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TV Writing
Summary

The process of pitching your pilot to different networks and production houses is an exhausting treadmill of meetings with executives, but every once in a while, a meeting will stick out and seem special. Even though it may be repetitive, it's an opportunity to learn and grow as a writer.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
A group of podcast hosts discuss the art of joke writing and the careful craft that goes into creating comedic content, drawing parallels to the precision required in fields like physics and engineering.
41:37 - 46:22 (04:44)
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Comedy Writing
Summary

A group of podcast hosts discuss the art of joke writing and the careful craft that goes into creating comedic content, drawing parallels to the precision required in fields like physics and engineering.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker discusses the importance of character likability in media and how it relates to audience identification, as well as sharing personal anecdotes from their experiences in the television industry.
46:22 - 54:04 (07:42)
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Media
Summary

The speaker discusses the importance of character likability in media and how it relates to audience identification, as well as sharing personal anecdotes from their experiences in the television industry.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker talks about the emotional connection and cognitive dissonance they felt while collecting books and the impact the objects had on them.
54:04 - 1:01:38 (07:34)
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Book Collecting
Some well-known individuals have bizarre Twitter handles because they were created when they had concerns about security or privacy, or didn't think Twitter would become popular.
1:01:40 - 1:05:47 (04:07)
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Twitter handles
Summary

Some well-known individuals have bizarre Twitter handles because they were created when they had concerns about security or privacy, or didn't think Twitter would become popular. However, getting verified can give credibility and legitimacy to a handle.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Michael Schur talks about the importance of tracking patterns in life and taking risks in career transitions, sharing how his journey from writing for sitcoms like The Office and Parks and Recreation led him to create unique shows like The Good Place and upcoming series Rutherford Falls.
1:05:47 - 1:12:30 (06:42)
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Personal Development
Summary

Michael Schur talks about the importance of tracking patterns in life and taking risks in career transitions, sharing how his journey from writing for sitcoms like The Office and Parks and Recreation led him to create unique shows like The Good Place and upcoming series Rutherford Falls.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The creators of the sitcom The Good Place discuss the risk and reward of making a show about ethical choices and moral dilemmas, and finding the balance between entertainment and philosophy.
1:12:30 - 1:17:32 (05:01)
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Ethics and Philosophy
Summary

The creators of the sitcom The Good Place discuss the risk and reward of making a show about ethical choices and moral dilemmas, and finding the balance between entertainment and philosophy.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker confesses to making a mistake during the repair of a car and seeking advice from the owner on how to proceed.
1:17:32 - 1:21:18 (03:46)
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Car repair
The speaker shares his interest in ethics and how it began from his search for a right answer on an ethical dilemma.
1:21:18 - 1:25:03 (03:44)
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Ethics
The author had an encounter with a rude man that made him realize the significance of small, daily interactions and the ethical dilemmas that often come with them.
1:25:03 - 1:30:09 (05:06)
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Ethics
Summary

The author had an encounter with a rude man that made him realize the significance of small, daily interactions and the ethical dilemmas that often come with them. He wrote a book and produced a show inspired by this realization.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
By actively observing and interpreting the human condition, TV writers imbue their characters with real life feelings that viewers can connect with and understand.
1:30:09 - 1:36:06 (05:57)
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TV Writing
The author discusses the problematic nature of philosophers and how he hopes to make philosophy more accessible to people with his new book, offering real potential value for improving people's lives.
1:36:06 - 1:45:49 (09:42)
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Philosophy
Summary

The author discusses the problematic nature of philosophers and how he hopes to make philosophy more accessible to people with his new book, offering real potential value for improving people's lives.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
This episode discusses the advantages of having a philosophical toolkit with different schools of thought that one can consult in times of need.
1:45:49 - 1:53:18 (07:29)
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Philosophy
A former SNL writer reflects on the culture of failure and how it strengthened their writing, the process of writing sketches with the funniest people in the world, and the grueling Tuesday night all-nighter writing sessions.
1:53:18 - 1:58:47 (05:28)
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SNL
Summary

A former SNL writer reflects on the culture of failure and how it strengthened their writing, the process of writing sketches with the funniest people in the world, and the grueling Tuesday night all-nighter writing sessions.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
John discusses the importance of recognizing mistakes and apologizing for them in a timely manner, rather than waiting months or years down the line.
1:58:46 - 2:05:56 (07:09)
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Apology
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Charity
Summary

Actor Michael J. Fox has announced that he will donate 100% of the proceeds from his new book to charity. The book, co-authored by Todd May, deals with the topic of ethics and Fox hopes readers will do their own educational reading on the subject.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Tim Ferriss urges listeners to sign up for his free newsletter, Five Bullet Friday, which includes updates on topics such as hormones and insulin levels.
2:14:35 - 2:19:46 (05:10)
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Tim Ferriss
Helix Sleep offers customized mattresses based on a two-minute sleep quiz to help you get the best sleep possible.
2:19:46 - 2:21:44 (01:57)
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Helix Sleep Mattress
Summary

Helix Sleep offers customized mattresses based on a two-minute sleep quiz to help you get the best sleep possible. There is currently a discount of up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows.

Episode
#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show