Episode
#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
4:11:08
Published: Sun Apr 24 2022
Description
Sara Walker is an astrobiologist and theoretical physicist. Lee Cronin is a chemist. This is a conversation and debate about alien life and alien civilizations. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Uncruise: https://uncruise.com/pages/lex - Linode: https://linode.com/lex to get $100 free credit - ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free - ROKA: https://roka.com/ and use code LEX to get 20% off your first order - Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex and use code LEX to get 1 month of fish oil EPISODE LINKS: Sara's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Sara_Imari Sara's Website: http://emergence.asu.edu Lee's Twitter: https://twitter.com/leecronin Lee's Website: https://www.chem.gla.ac.uk/cronin Chemify's Website: https://chemify.io PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (07:47) - Aliens (21:53) - What is life? (29:35) - Assembly theory (52:03) - Math (1:03:45) - Communication with aliens (1:28:38) - Evolution of the universe (1:37:56) - Creating alien life (1:45:29) - Origin of life (1:52:29) - Before the Big Bang (1:59:22) - God (2:09:39) - Goal-directed behavior (2:27:37) - Time (2:35:54) - Free will and imagination (2:51:06) - UFO sightings (2:56:06) - Alien life forms debate (3:11:14) - Robots (3:20:29) - Love and emotion (3:38:55) - Beauty in science (3:49:06) - Random questions (3:58:30) - Advice for young people (4:01:48) - Life on Earth (4:06:12) - Memory
Chapters
Astrobiologist Sarah Walker and chemist Lee Cronin, both interested in the origins and development of life, join forces to discuss the fascinating questions of what aliens look like, how to recognize them, how to communicate with them, and how to make sense of life on Earth in the context of all possible life forms that exist in the cosmos.
00:00 - 01:10 (01:10)
Summary
Astrobiologist Sarah Walker and chemist Lee Cronin, both interested in the origins and development of life, join forces to discuss the fascinating questions of what aliens look like, how to recognize them, how to communicate with them, and how to make sense of life on Earth in the context of all possible life forms that exist in the cosmos.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Alaskan Adventures offers $500 discount till June for bookings made within 30 days while Linode provides free $100 credit for cloud services.
01:11 - 08:58 (07:47)
Summary
Alaskan Adventures offers $500 discount till June for bookings made within 30 days while Linode provides free $100 credit for cloud services. Also, Roka, the makers of innovative glasses and sunglasses sponsor the show.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The idea that extraterrestrial life would most likely be antagonistic towards human beings is not entirely accurate, and it is more plausible to think that the desire for exploration and communication would win out over the urge for war and conflict if humans and intelligent extraterrestrial beings were to encounter each other.
08:58 - 19:06 (10:07)
Summary
The idea that extraterrestrial life would most likely be antagonistic towards human beings is not entirely accurate, and it is more plausible to think that the desire for exploration and communication would win out over the urge for war and conflict if humans and intelligent extraterrestrial beings were to encounter each other.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker discusses how assembly theory can account for the soul in objects, without resorting to mystical beliefs.
19:06 - 27:54 (08:47)
Summary
The speaker discusses how assembly theory can account for the soul in objects, without resorting to mystical beliefs. They also touch upon curiosity as a means to avoid violence, and the role of memory in determining life.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Assembly theory suggests that minimal amount of time universe has to undergo to assemble a particular object is the assembly index, which can tell if an object was created by something life-like or if it itself is life-like.
27:54 - 32:58 (05:04)
Summary
Assembly theory suggests that minimal amount of time universe has to undergo to assemble a particular object is the assembly index, which can tell if an object was created by something life-like or if it itself is life-like. Mass spec can measure this index, indicating a machine or system with information about assembling the object is required if the index is sufficiently high.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The assembly index is the ordering, or partial ordering, of all the things that can happen based on the depth of how far you've gone into the space of all possible things and how much time was required to get there.
32:58 - 41:38 (08:39)
Summary
The assembly index is the ordering, or partial ordering, of all the things that can happen based on the depth of how far you've gone into the space of all possible things and how much time was required to get there. Although we cannot infer an object's entire history, we can infer the time it took to create it.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The minimal compression in the universe produces the shortest path, connecting events from millions of years ago to the present day, and even making first contact with gravitational waves possible.
41:38 - 49:47 (08:09)
Summary
The minimal compression in the universe produces the shortest path, connecting events from millions of years ago to the present day, and even making first contact with gravitational waves possible.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker argues that abstractions are physical things that exist in the universe, rather than disembodied properties that exist outside of it, and explores the intersection of objects of stuff that have memories as the mechanism by which information is abstracted.
49:48 - 55:56 (06:08)
Summary
The speaker argues that abstractions are physical things that exist in the universe, rather than disembodied properties that exist outside of it, and explores the intersection of objects of stuff that have memories as the mechanism by which information is abstracted.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The podcast explores the idea of how physical systems communicate with each other through the concept of mathematics.
55:56 - 1:03:58 (08:02)
Summary
The podcast explores the idea of how physical systems communicate with each other through the concept of mathematics. Mathematics can be seen as universality copyable information that allows new possibilities and ultimately maps one physical system to another.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The assumptions we make about how aliens perceive and interact with the world make it difficult to create a universal form of communication.
1:03:58 - 1:06:44 (02:45)
Summary
The assumptions we make about how aliens perceive and interact with the world make it difficult to create a universal form of communication. Scientists are considering abandoning binary and developing a new, universal method for encoding messages to be sent into space.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Exploring the vastness of space and the limitations of chemistry as a means to build objects, the podcast raises questions about the possibility of detecting technology created by aliens before detecting the beings themselves.
1:06:44 - 1:13:12 (06:28)
Summary
Exploring the vastness of space and the limitations of chemistry as a means to build objects, the podcast raises questions about the possibility of detecting technology created by aliens before detecting the beings themselves.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The search for extraterrestrial intelligence is a challenge due to our limited ability to understand how to construct assembly spaces from visual or smell data.
1:13:12 - 1:18:13 (05:00)
Summary
The search for extraterrestrial intelligence is a challenge due to our limited ability to understand how to construct assembly spaces from visual or smell data. The perceptual filter implies that we might have to acquire technology and create aliens in a lab before finding them in the universe.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The host and guest investigate whether there could be some statistical signatures that show the presence of a group of agents with intelligence compared to a system like Brownian motion.
1:18:13 - 1:28:48 (10:35)
Summary
The host and guest investigate whether there could be some statistical signatures that show the presence of a group of agents with intelligence compared to a system like Brownian motion.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
When there is a sufficient density in the assembly space, there is a transition to assembly dominated physics which leads to the combinatorial diversity of molecules from combining things on the periodic table.
1:28:48 - 1:34:51 (06:02)
Summary
When there is a sufficient density in the assembly space, there is a transition to assembly dominated physics which leads to the combinatorial diversity of molecules from combining things on the periodic table. This is when the selection and the fact that some things can exist and others can't exist actually starts to matter.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The early seeding of Earth from Mars provided the planet with the right molecular replicators, while the moon could offer insight into the search for the origin of life by studying interesting self-replicating stuff restricted to the lunar environment.
1:34:51 - 1:45:08 (10:17)
Summary
The early seeding of Earth from Mars provided the planet with the right molecular replicators, while the moon could offer insight into the search for the origin of life by studying interesting self-replicating stuff restricted to the lunar environment.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Michael Nielsen discusses the possibility of creating life in a lab, and questions whether it would lead to a deep understanding of the line between life and non-life.
1:45:08 - 1:51:49 (06:41)
Summary
Michael Nielsen discusses the possibility of creating life in a lab, and questions whether it would lead to a deep understanding of the line between life and non-life.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In this podcast episode, the speaker discusses the concept of time and its relevance in experiments.
1:51:49 - 1:57:54 (06:05)
Summary
In this podcast episode, the speaker discusses the concept of time and its relevance in experiments. They explore the idea that the existence of things is not always as we think it is and highlight the difficulty in conducting experiments when there is a causal bottleneck.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speakers discuss their beliefs on how God can exist in the universe and how finding explanations can lead to more optimism.
1:57:54 - 2:03:06 (05:11)
Summary
The speakers discuss their beliefs on how God can exist in the universe and how finding explanations can lead to more optimism.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker argues that God is a physically real thing, created by the universe's ability to generate meaning and purpose, while the interlocutor suggests that this view of God is mechanistic and unsophisticated.
2:03:06 - 2:08:25 (05:19)
Summary
The speaker argues that God is a physically real thing, created by the universe's ability to generate meaning and purpose, while the interlocutor suggests that this view of God is mechanistic and unsophisticated.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker shares ideas for building an ASIC for assembly networks that can bypass guessing and training on images by training the system one step at a time to understand its features, like a Lego project.
2:08:25 - 2:17:49 (09:23)
Summary
The speaker shares ideas for building an ASIC for assembly networks that can bypass guessing and training on images by training the system one step at a time to understand its features, like a Lego project.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The question of consciousness should not focus on the intrinsic experience but rather on the observable difference from the outside in terms of the kind of causation the physical system would enact in.
2:17:49 - 2:21:27 (03:38)
Summary
The question of consciousness should not focus on the intrinsic experience but rather on the observable difference from the outside in terms of the kind of causation the physical system would enact in. Two researchers attempted to implement this concept in an experiment involving a skier and a rock.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The ability to remember and selectively forget information is crucial for human-like consciousness, which is yet to be achieved in machine learning.
2:21:27 - 2:28:29 (07:02)
Summary
The ability to remember and selectively forget information is crucial for human-like consciousness, which is yet to be achieved in machine learning. Observing systems with internal representations and physically equivalent situations can help identify experimental observables associated with memory and consciousness.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The universe only operates in one direction which creates a causal graph, and the fundamental structure of the universe imposes various orderings that can't be undone, even though it's possible to communicate in a way that simulates a reverse development of events.
2:28:29 - 2:32:31 (04:01)
Summary
The universe only operates in one direction which creates a causal graph, and the fundamental structure of the universe imposes various orderings that can't be undone, even though it's possible to communicate in a way that simulates a reverse development of events.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The universe is expanding in terms of the number of boxes that it has to store states, where every time you try to simulate the universe, it expands in states.
2:32:31 - 2:38:04 (05:32)
Summary
The universe is expanding in terms of the number of boxes that it has to store states, where every time you try to simulate the universe, it expands in states.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The podcast discusses the complexity of creating individual beings with free will and how the laws of physics do not necessarily preclude this possibility.
2:38:04 - 2:46:58 (08:54)
Summary
The podcast discusses the complexity of creating individual beings with free will and how the laws of physics do not necessarily preclude this possibility.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The way we interpret our past has an impact on how we shape our future.
2:46:58 - 2:51:31 (04:33)
Summary
The way we interpret our past has an impact on how we shape our future. By using imagination and reinterpreting our past in a positive way, we can supercharge our ability to create novelty and shape our own future.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Scientist and professor, Avi Loeb, discusses the possibility of discovering new forms of life in the outer solar system and the importance of seeking knowledge before claiming contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings.
2:51:31 - 2:57:41 (06:09)
Summary
Scientist and professor, Avi Loeb, discusses the possibility of discovering new forms of life in the outer solar system and the importance of seeking knowledge before claiming contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The emergence of life on earth required two different pre-life forms, the peptide world and the RNA world, and it is considered a planetary phenomenon.
2:57:41 - 3:04:54 (07:13)
Summary
The emergence of life on earth required two different pre-life forms, the peptide world and the RNA world, and it is considered a planetary phenomenon.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The conversation veers into the ethics of humane farming and how as we become more aware of the consciousness of both animals and plants, we may need to eventually consider "humane gardening."
3:04:54 - 3:10:03 (05:09)
Summary
The conversation veers into the ethics of humane farming and how as we become more aware of the consciousness of both animals and plants, we may need to eventually consider "humane gardening."
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The conversation centers around the idea of immortality and life engineering, exploring the possibility of extending the human lifespan and engineering life at the molecular level.
3:10:03 - 3:14:13 (04:09)
Summary
The conversation centers around the idea of immortality and life engineering, exploring the possibility of extending the human lifespan and engineering life at the molecular level.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This episode dives into the psychology of how we relate to robots and how "uncanny valley" can impact our interactions with them.
3:14:13 - 3:21:53 (07:40)
Summary
This episode dives into the psychology of how we relate to robots and how "uncanny valley" can impact our interactions with them. The conversation touches on the philosophical implications of building robotic personalities and the potential for creating a robot-dominated planet.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Love is projecting ahead to fulfill the needs of others without selfish intentions, while empathy is the ability to understand and connect with others, according to the discussion in the podcast.
3:21:53 - 3:25:04 (03:10)
Summary
Love is projecting ahead to fulfill the needs of others without selfish intentions, while empathy is the ability to understand and connect with others, according to the discussion in the podcast.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
On a larger timescale, the ways in which people diverge in their decision making is a result of the manifestation of novelty.
3:25:04 - 3:29:24 (04:20)
Summary
On a larger timescale, the ways in which people diverge in their decision making is a result of the manifestation of novelty. In the usage and learning of language, it is more about fooling others rather than understanding the full context.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The idea of inventing architectures for robots that have a "soul" or a sense of uniqueness and generate novelty problems could make humans develop more attachment towards these intelligent machines.
3:29:24 - 3:34:03 (04:38)
Summary
The idea of inventing architectures for robots that have a "soul" or a sense of uniqueness and generate novelty problems could make humans develop more attachment towards these intelligent machines.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
A discussion about the search for novelty in the universe and building an experiment to detect how the universe is generating novelty.
3:34:03 - 3:38:46 (04:42)
Summary
A discussion about the search for novelty in the universe and building an experiment to detect how the universe is generating novelty.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The podcast host discusses the idea that humans are special and their existence is intrinsic to the structure of reality.
3:38:46 - 3:44:41 (05:54)
Summary
The podcast host discusses the idea that humans are special and their existence is intrinsic to the structure of reality. They also explore the most beautiful ideas in the physics and chemistry of life through assembly theory.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The Assembly theory explains why life is the universe developing a memory and while it humbles us as living beings, it also brings optimism about what the future of the universe holds.
3:44:41 - 3:51:02 (06:21)
Summary
The Assembly theory explains why life is the universe developing a memory and while it humbles us as living beings, it also brings optimism about what the future of the universe holds.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In this unclear podcast transcript, the speaker expresses their desire to understand the feeling of empowerment and terror that comes with experiencing social realities.
3:51:02 - 3:53:12 (02:09)
Summary
In this unclear podcast transcript, the speaker expresses their desire to understand the feeling of empowerment and terror that comes with experiencing social realities. They also express interest in a certain individual's understanding of this topic.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Leif and Adam discuss what it would be like to be the last person on Earth and whether or not they would prefer it.
3:53:12 - 3:55:04 (01:52)
Summary
Leif and Adam discuss what it would be like to be the last person on Earth and whether or not they would prefer it.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Paul Davies, a renowned theoretical physicist, emphasizes the importance of a teacher's support and encouragement for students, as it can have a significant impact on their academic and personal lives.
3:55:04 - 3:58:38 (03:33)
Summary
Paul Davies, a renowned theoretical physicist, emphasizes the importance of a teacher's support and encouragement for students, as it can have a significant impact on their academic and personal lives.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker encourages young people to ask questions, even if it may offend others, as it could possibly lead to innovative thinking and respect.
3:58:38 - 4:04:09 (05:31)
Summary
The speaker encourages young people to ask questions, even if it may offend others, as it could possibly lead to innovative thinking and respect. He also mentions receiving a book on the origin of homo chirality and the possibility of intelligent life in the universe.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In this podcast, the host discusses the concept of apocalyptic events such as those portrayed in the movie 'Children of Men' and seeks to find hope in the current state of humanity and the universe.
4:04:09 - 4:09:13 (05:04)
Summary
In this podcast, the host discusses the concept of apocalyptic events such as those portrayed in the movie 'Children of Men' and seeks to find hope in the current state of humanity and the universe.
Episode#279 – Alien Debate: Sara Walker and Lee Cronin
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker reflects on the beauty of a world where technology is programmable and provides access to endless knowledge.
4:09:13 - 4:12:10 (02:56)
Summary
The speaker reflects on the beauty of a world where technology is programmable and provides access to endless knowledge. She finds hope in the creativity of "wild minds" like her own, while acknowledging the drawbacks of social media platforms like TikTok.