Episode
#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
5:01:37
Published: Wed Dec 08 2021
Description
Jamie Metzl is an author specializing in topics of genetic engineering, biotechnology, and geopolitics. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Mizzen+Main: https://mizzenandmain.com and use code LEX to get $35 off - NI: https://www.ni.com/perspectives - GiveDirectly: https://givedirectly.org/lex to get gift matched up to $300 - Indeed: https://indeed.com/lex to get $75 credit - Blinkist: https://blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off premium EPISODE LINKS: Jamie's Twitter: https://twitter.com/JamieMetzl Jamie's Website: https://jamiemetzl.com/ Jamie's lab leak blog post: https://jamiemetzl.com/origins-of-sars-cov-2/ Hacking Darwin (book): https://amzn.to/3lLqLsM PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (07:44) - Lab leak (1:06:18) - Gain-of-function research (1:15:49) - Anthony Fauci (1:25:31) - Francis Collins (1:30:13) - Joe Rogan, Brett Weinstein, and Sam Harris (2:00:10) - Xi Jinping (2:14:41) - Patient Zero (2:27:55) - WHO (2:51:45) - Government transparency (3:13:45) - Likelihood of a cover-up (3:15:34) - Future of reproduction (3:51:12) - Jon Stewart (3:56:31) - Joe Rogan and Sanjay Gupta (4:21:36) - Ultramarathons (4:31:38) - Chocolate (4:39:51) - One Shared World (4:54:54) - Hope for the future
Chapters
In this podcast episode, the host has a conversation with Jamie Metzl, an author specializing in genetic engineering, biotechnology, and geopolitics, about the need to investigate and keep an open mind about the origins of COVID-19, specifically the lab leak hypothesis that the virus leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology in 2019.
00:00 - 01:22 (01:22)
Summary
In this podcast episode, the host has a conversation with Jamie Metzl, an author specializing in genetic engineering, biotechnology, and geopolitics, about the need to investigate and keep an open mind about the origins of COVID-19, specifically the lab leak hypothesis that the virus leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology in 2019. The conversation aims to ask hard questions while searching for the beautiful and inspiring in the mind of the other person.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker talks about their favorite black shirt, and then transitions to mention NI.com/perspectives, while also promoting a sponsor job credit at indeed.com/Lex, and a non-profit organization called Give Directly.
01:22 - 07:15 (05:53)
Summary
The speaker talks about their favorite black shirt, and then transitions to mention NI.com/perspectives, while also promoting a sponsor job credit at indeed.com/Lex, and a non-profit organization called Give Directly.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In a podcast episode discussing the origins of COVID-19, experts explore the possibility of the virus coming from natural origins such as a bat virus backbone and how it could have spread to humans through an intermediate species like pigs.
07:16 - 14:25 (07:09)
Summary
In a podcast episode discussing the origins of COVID-19, experts explore the possibility of the virus coming from natural origins such as a bat virus backbone and how it could have spread to humans through an intermediate species like pigs.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The origin of the first COVID-19 cases is still unknown, but Michael Warby argues that the initial cases linked to the Hunan market cannot be dismissed as biased data, considering ample evidence that infected meat was being sold there.
14:25 - 22:58 (08:32)
Summary
The origin of the first COVID-19 cases is still unknown, but Michael Warby argues that the initial cases linked to the Hunan market cannot be dismissed as biased data, considering ample evidence that infected meat was being sold there.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
There are speculations that the first signs of COVID-19 outbreak in Wuhan could have occurred as early as September 2019 rather than December 2019 while the Chinese government reported that their database was getting hacked in late September 2019, the Wuhan Institute of Virology had a public database of thousands of sampled bad coronavirus sequences and it went offline at the same time.
22:58 - 31:57 (08:59)
Summary
There are speculations that the first signs of COVID-19 outbreak in Wuhan could have occurred as early as September 2019 rather than December 2019 while the Chinese government reported that their database was getting hacked in late September 2019, the Wuhan Institute of Virology had a public database of thousands of sampled bad coronavirus sequences and it went offline at the same time.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The importance of listening to controversial ideas and all sides when investigating the origins of the pandemic and the implications of government suppression of information.
31:57 - 40:39 (08:41)
Summary
The importance of listening to controversial ideas and all sides when investigating the origins of the pandemic and the implications of government suppression of information. The role of high containment labs, such as level four labs, in researching viruses and protecting against outbreaks.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Two virologists were certain that COVID-19 came from nature and not from a lab or incident, but a new report suggests the possibility of a lab incident origin.
40:39 - 56:08 (15:28)
Summary
Two virologists were certain that COVID-19 came from nature and not from a lab or incident, but a new report suggests the possibility of a lab incident origin. Virologist Peter Dazeck guides the public in support of international collaboration towards the origins of the pandemic.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The 2018 proposal to DARPA from EcoHealth Alliance and Wuhan Institute of Virology was intended to be carried out at the lab of Ralph Barrick, a leading expert on coronaviruses, which seems like a smoking gun towards the lab origin theory of Covid-19.
56:08 - 1:04:08 (08:00)
Summary
The 2018 proposal to DARPA from EcoHealth Alliance and Wuhan Institute of Virology was intended to be carried out at the lab of Ralph Barrick, a leading expert on coronaviruses, which seems like a smoking gun towards the lab origin theory of Covid-19. This fraudulent narrative is furthered by the analogy given of adding horns to horses and the proposal being rejected, supposedly proving that the virus almost certainly came from natural origins.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The lack of a philosophical discussion on the ethical lines and the types of research which can be carried out has led to the frustration around gain of function research.
1:04:08 - 1:15:00 (10:51)
Summary
The lack of a philosophical discussion on the ethical lines and the types of research which can be carried out has led to the frustration around gain of function research. While Anthony Fauci and other organizations are in the line of fire, a more extensive discussion on whether such research should be pursued seems necessary.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The solution to the controversy around the lab leak theory is to be transparent, honest, and vulnerable in expressing the full uncertainty of the research, presenting all the possible actions and being honest about the mistakes made in the past.
1:15:00 - 1:21:34 (06:34)
Summary
The solution to the controversy around the lab leak theory is to be transparent, honest, and vulnerable in expressing the full uncertainty of the research, presenting all the possible actions and being honest about the mistakes made in the past. A scientist's greatness is best exemplified in humility with the scientific method slowly chipping away at the fog of mystery.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The Chinese government's coverup is preventing any meaningful investigation into the origins of the pandemic, and there is a growing need for transparency and honest communication about what is known.
1:21:34 - 1:29:55 (08:21)
Summary
The Chinese government's coverup is preventing any meaningful investigation into the origins of the pandemic, and there is a growing need for transparency and honest communication about what is known. Despite early warnings from a few individuals, including Matt Pottinger, there has been limited action taken to understand the origins of the pandemic.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The misunderstanding of the truth behind the Covid-19 pandemic could be a result of relying solely on science and not taking cultural factors into account.
1:29:55 - 1:45:26 (15:30)
Summary
The misunderstanding of the truth behind the Covid-19 pandemic could be a result of relying solely on science and not taking cultural factors into account. People must have conversations about cultural understanding to create a happier world.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Suppressed information in the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak resulted in significant loss of life.
1:45:27 - 1:52:07 (06:40)
Summary
Suppressed information in the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak resulted in significant loss of life. The Chinese government's lack of civil and political rights and incentive to lie to the international community were contributing factors.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
A journalist discusses the challenges of reporting on China, including the language barrier and the Chinese government's internet censorship.
1:52:07 - 2:01:57 (09:49)
Summary
A journalist discusses the challenges of reporting on China, including the language barrier and the Chinese government's internet censorship. She emphasizes the importance of investing time to learn the language and culture of China.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The power of information is the key to overcoming lies, and censorship can lead to the destruction of a country as seen in North Korea.
2:01:59 - 2:12:53 (10:54)
Summary
The power of information is the key to overcoming lies, and censorship can lead to the destruction of a country as seen in North Korea.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast discusses the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, including the estimate for when patient zero was infected and the possibility of an infectee zero.
2:12:54 - 2:17:51 (04:56)
Summary
This podcast discusses the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, including the estimate for when patient zero was infected and the possibility of an infectee zero.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
While the RATG13 virus is not a sufficient enough match to serve as a backbone for COVID-19, it is possible that other viruses collected in Laos, Cambodia, or Southern China could have arrived at something similar to COVID-19 through genetic modification or accelerated evolution.
2:17:51 - 2:27:53 (10:02)
Summary
While the RATG13 virus is not a sufficient enough match to serve as a backbone for COVID-19, it is possible that other viruses collected in Laos, Cambodia, or Southern China could have arrived at something similar to COVID-19 through genetic modification or accelerated evolution.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast discusses the importance of the World Health Organization (WHO) and its role in global public health issues, including collaboration with countries such as China.
2:27:53 - 2:31:50 (03:57)
Summary
This podcast discusses the importance of the World Health Organization (WHO) and its role in global public health issues, including collaboration with countries such as China. It also recognizes criticisms of the WHO but highlights its necessity in addressing transnational health challenges.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The Chinese government supported a joint study organized by the WHO to investigate the zoonotic origins of the virus, but half the team were Chinese experts and the other half were independent international experts.
2:31:50 - 2:39:33 (07:42)
Summary
The Chinese government supported a joint study organized by the WHO to investigate the zoonotic origins of the virus, but half the team were Chinese experts and the other half were independent international experts. However, there were controversies surrounding the investigation and accusations of Chinese control over the study.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Marion Koopmans, a Dutch virologist who consistently called a lab incident origin a "debunked conspiracy theory," was not included in the recent list of people who are part of SAGO.
2:39:33 - 2:51:33 (12:00)
Summary
Marion Koopmans, a Dutch virologist who consistently called a lab incident origin a "debunked conspiracy theory," was not included in the recent list of people who are part of SAGO. Despite some manifestations of a lab incident being likely, China is doing everything possible to prevent investigations into the origins of the pandemic, including preventing any mention of a lab incident in the report that was released.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast episode discusses the lab leak theory and the role of the Chinese government in the outbreak of the Omicron variant.
2:51:33 - 3:00:26 (08:52)
Summary
This podcast episode discusses the lab leak theory and the role of the Chinese government in the outbreak of the Omicron variant. The speaker shares his thoughts on why short-term travel bans are not a terrible idea, and why some people are more interested in pointing out the emperor's lack of clothes than building a better world.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In this episode, Lex and Stephen Wertheim discuss the role of sovereignty in pandemic response, the influence of history on current global politics, and the importance of focusing on the future of pandemic prevention.
3:00:26 - 3:10:05 (09:39)
Summary
In this episode, Lex and Stephen Wertheim discuss the role of sovereignty in pandemic response, the influence of history on current global politics, and the importance of focusing on the future of pandemic prevention.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The likelihood of a cover-up is high if the lab leak hypothesis is true, and there is a need for government transparency and accountability to prevent such actions.
3:10:05 - 3:15:40 (05:34)
Summary
The likelihood of a cover-up is high if the lab leak hypothesis is true, and there is a need for government transparency and accountability to prevent such actions.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The advancement of genetic technology will allow humans to have greater control over genetic traits and predict everything that can be predicted by genetics, raising important ethical questions.
3:15:40 - 3:25:59 (10:18)
Summary
The advancement of genetic technology will allow humans to have greater control over genetic traits and predict everything that can be predicted by genetics, raising important ethical questions.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast episode gives a brief overview of stem cells, its types, and its potential uses.
3:25:59 - 3:33:27 (07:28)
Summary
This podcast episode gives a brief overview of stem cells, its types, and its potential uses. The speaker also discusses the complexity of genome engineering, and how CRISPR is only a small slice of the pie.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The idea of a world ruled by the super intelligent poses the risk of magnifying the usual aspects of human nature, which could lead to global authoritarian decisions made by a select few.
3:33:30 - 3:42:15 (08:44)
Summary
The idea of a world ruled by the super intelligent poses the risk of magnifying the usual aspects of human nature, which could lead to global authoritarian decisions made by a select few. Furthermore, IQ tests have been used to both celebrate the successes of the human species and divide people, and not everyone has equal opportunities to excel in such a system.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
There might be a shift towards reproduction through science as people come to believe that it is safer and more beneficial than having children through sex, according to Jamie Metzl in Hacking Darwin, raising new ethical concerns that current ethical concerns don't cover.
3:42:15 - 3:50:13 (07:58)
Summary
There might be a shift towards reproduction through science as people come to believe that it is safer and more beneficial than having children through sex, according to Jamie Metzl in Hacking Darwin, raising new ethical concerns that current ethical concerns don't cover.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Neil deGrasse Tyson discusses the responsibility of influential figures with Joe Rogan and references Francis Collins' statement that those with a platform have a responsibility to share their judgments, but warns against assuming authority and the importance of reaching people where they are.
3:50:13 - 4:03:57 (13:43)
Summary
Neil deGrasse Tyson discusses the responsibility of influential figures with Joe Rogan and references Francis Collins' statement that those with a platform have a responsibility to share their judgments, but warns against assuming authority and the importance of reaching people where they are.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The risk of being harmed or killed by COVID-19 is higher for older or obese people, but younger and healthier individuals can still contract and spread the virus.
4:03:57 - 4:09:23 (05:25)
Summary
The risk of being harmed or killed by COVID-19 is higher for older or obese people, but younger and healthier individuals can still contract and spread the virus. Vaccinating the poorest individuals with higher risk of exposure is necessary to prevent hospital overflow.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The quality of data and sources for COVID-19 vaccinations are concerning, and it is important to question the motivations and parties involved in the development and communication of vaccine information.
4:09:23 - 4:21:40 (12:17)
Summary
The quality of data and sources for COVID-19 vaccinations are concerning, and it is important to question the motivations and parties involved in the development and communication of vaccine information. However, despite any doubts or fears, the reality is that getting vaccinated is crucial for individual and public health.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker advises first time ultra marathoners to increase their mileage in a steady way, take rest days and listen to their bodies.
4:21:40 - 4:31:36 (09:55)
Summary
The speaker advises first time ultra marathoners to increase their mileage in a steady way, take rest days and listen to their bodies. She highlights the importance of listening to one's body and communicating with it to know when to push and when to take a break.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker shares their personal story of how they became interested in cacao ceremonies, discussing the spiritual and cultural significance of the plant.
4:31:38 - 4:37:20 (05:41)
Summary
The speaker shares their personal story of how they became interested in cacao ceremonies, discussing the spiritual and cultural significance of the plant.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The production of a microphone, and every object around us, has been touched by the work of thousands of people who contributed to its creation, from the factories to the manufacturers who put it all together.
4:37:20 - 4:41:23 (04:02)
Summary
The production of a microphone, and every object around us, has been touched by the work of thousands of people who contributed to its creation, from the factories to the manufacturers who put it all together.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
While engaging people outside of traditional power structures is important, solving global problems like climate change, pandemics, and WMD requires more structure and action than just attending a global citizen concert or tweeting.
4:41:23 - 4:52:52 (11:29)
Summary
While engaging people outside of traditional power structures is important, solving global problems like climate change, pandemics, and WMD requires more structure and action than just attending a global citizen concert or tweeting. Using UN resolutions as a model and working with young people can help drive the necessary change.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Scientist Richard Feynman believed that it was the responsibility of scientists to think broadly about the world and the impact of their inventions.
4:52:52 - 5:00:50 (07:58)
Summary
Scientist Richard Feynman believed that it was the responsibility of scientists to think broadly about the world and the impact of their inventions. The creation of infrastructure that makes people feel like stakeholders in contributing to a positive story can inspire friendly competition between nations instead of adversarial competition, which can lead to secrecy and censorship.
Episode#247 – Jamie Metzl: Lab Leak Theory
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The limitations of specialization have made it difficult to have public discussions on age-old problems such as the relation of science and religion, which are still as complex as ever.
5:00:50 - 5:01:33 (00:42)
Summary
The limitations of specialization have made it difficult to have public discussions on age-old problems such as the relation of science and religion, which are still as complex as ever.