Episode
#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
2:25:24
Published: Mon Dec 13 2021
Description
Norman Naimark is a historian at Stanford, specializing in the history of genocide. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Coinbase: https://coinbase.com/lex to get $5 in free Bitcoin - Quip: https://getquip.com/lex to get first refill free - Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex and use code LEX to get special savings - NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour - ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free EPISODE LINKS: Norman's Website: https://history.stanford.edu/people/norman-naimark Stalin's Genocides (book): https://amzn.to/3oO0Hzb Stalin and the Fate of Europe (book): https://amzn.to/3pLbWrk Books & resources mentioned: The Origins of Totalitarianism (book): https://amzn.to/3oNDSvA Man's Search for Meaning (book): https://amzn.to/3pMzs7d Radio Majdanek (Research Paper): https://bit.ly/3GxPEAb PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (07:08) - Stalin and absolute power (21:05) - Dictators and genocide (45:31) - What is genocide (55:38) - Human nature and suffering (1:25:23) - Mao's Great Leap Forward (1:32:37) - North Korea (1:36:30) - Our role in fighting against atrocities (1:45:26) - China (1:49:35) - Hopes for the future and technology (2:04:28) - Advice for young people (2:07:15) - Love and tragedy
Chapters
The podcast discusses the benefits of Coinbase as an easy-to-use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency, while also promoting KWIP, an electric toothbrush that provides a recommended two minute clean with timed sonic vibrations.
00:00 - 03:23 (03:23)
Summary
The podcast discusses the benefits of Coinbase as an easy-to-use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency, while also promoting KWIP, an electric toothbrush that provides a recommended two minute clean with timed sonic vibrations.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Historians who have researched Stalin's beliefs, as found in the Stalin archive, suggest that he was hardworking, intelligent, had an acute sense of politics, and a fantastic editor.
03:23 - 12:22 (08:58)
Summary
Historians who have researched Stalin's beliefs, as found in the Stalin archive, suggest that he was hardworking, intelligent, had an acute sense of politics, and a fantastic editor. However, his beliefs did not exclude other thoughts, and one example of this was found in an archive where he listed down which grapes were better than others for the production of wine.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
A discussion on how Stalin's rise to power and control within the Soviet system led to mass killings and terror during the 1930s.
12:23 - 21:07 (08:43)
Summary
A discussion on how Stalin's rise to power and control within the Soviet system led to mass killings and terror during the 1930s.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Stalin launches a war against Ukraine's peasantry in a bid to show them who's boss and enforce collectivization.
21:07 - 28:23 (07:16)
Summary
Stalin launches a war against Ukraine's peasantry in a bid to show them who's boss and enforce collectivization. Teams of people forcibly seize grain and animals from Ukrainian peasants, causing immense suffering and death from hunger.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Historian Martin Malia argues that ideology plays a crucial role in the potential for genocide, as it can create a system where people believe there is a right side of history and a wrong side that must be destroyed.
28:23 - 38:57 (10:33)
Summary
Historian Martin Malia argues that ideology plays a crucial role in the potential for genocide, as it can create a system where people believe there is a right side of history and a wrong side that must be destroyed. The personality of those in power and historical circumstances can also contribute to the potential for genocide.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker believes that it's important to acknowledge the contingency and different paths taken in historical events, citing examples such as the Jewish response to the Holocaust and the events leading up to January 6th in the United States.
38:57 - 44:56 (05:58)
Summary
The speaker believes that it's important to acknowledge the contingency and different paths taken in historical events, citing examples such as the Jewish response to the Holocaust and the events leading up to January 6th in the United States.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast episode highlights the beauty of human diversity and how non-communists also committed horrific killings like the communists.
44:56 - 50:12 (05:16)
Summary
This podcast episode highlights the beauty of human diversity and how non-communists also committed horrific killings like the communists. It also shares the story of a Polish Jewish jurist who crusaded for genocide recognition.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The development of ethnography in the late 19th century was fraught with racial and antisemitic thinking, leading to a sense of superiority and inferiority between different peoples, despite the fascinating diversity that was being documented.
50:12 - 56:57 (06:45)
Summary
The development of ethnography in the late 19th century was fraught with racial and antisemitic thinking, leading to a sense of superiority and inferiority between different peoples, despite the fascinating diversity that was being documented.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The ability to choose not to do evil is a great thing, whereas some societies prompt their people to hurt and injury others due to their social situation.
56:57 - 1:05:16 (08:18)
Summary
The ability to choose not to do evil is a great thing, whereas some societies prompt their people to hurt and injury others due to their social situation. With the prevalence of hate, it seems that people with integrity often remain quiet.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The question of the capability of being murderers and mass murderers is something that lies within all of us humans.
1:05:16 - 1:14:48 (09:31)
Summary
The question of the capability of being murderers and mass murderers is something that lies within all of us humans. People tend to give in to their peers' decisions, and they are unwilling to speak out when they know something is wrong.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The incidence of homicide, rape, and genocide has decreased over time, and this may be due to the inherent kindness and compassion in the hearts of humans.
1:14:48 - 1:25:29 (10:40)
Summary
The incidence of homicide, rape, and genocide has decreased over time, and this may be due to the inherent kindness and compassion in the hearts of humans. Educating people about the warning signs of genocide and how it occurs can help prevent it from happening in the future.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The famine in North Korea was a crime against humanity, with the number of people and degree of suffering impossible to accurately quantify.
1:25:29 - 1:38:15 (12:45)
Summary
The famine in North Korea was a crime against humanity, with the number of people and degree of suffering impossible to accurately quantify. The regime's indifference towards large numbers of people dying is reminiscent of Stalin and other totalitarian leaders.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The international community should push short of war to protect people’s rights in countries like China and Myanmar.
1:38:16 - 1:49:29 (11:13)
Summary
The international community should push short of war to protect people’s rights in countries like China and Myanmar. The notion of responsibility to protect was created after the Kosovo conflict, which aimed to prevent ethnic cleansing and genocide against the people in the region.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The realization of the destructive potential of nuclear weapons, particularly after Khrushchev's hydrogen bomb, led to an understanding of the need to prevent mutually assured destruction.
1:49:29 - 2:01:01 (11:31)
Summary
The realization of the destructive potential of nuclear weapons, particularly after Khrushchev's hydrogen bomb, led to an understanding of the need to prevent mutually assured destruction. The growth of technology and the high level of destructiveness reached with weapons led to a realization of the potential for catastrophic damage to the world.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Despite setbacks such as world wars, nuclear standoff, climate change, and migration, civilization has persisted.
2:01:02 - 2:12:08 (11:05)
Summary
Despite setbacks such as world wars, nuclear standoff, climate change, and migration, civilization has persisted. The speaker also expresses optimism about the younger generation's values and problem-solving skills.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker reflects on experiences with those closest to them, and the importance of balancing the inevitable suffering in life with the positive emotions of love and human connection.
2:12:08 - 2:20:30 (08:22)
Summary
The speaker reflects on experiences with those closest to them, and the importance of balancing the inevitable suffering in life with the positive emotions of love and human connection.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker expresses interest in having conversations with Russian friends about their non-academic perspectives on history, specifically comparing their views with those of the United States.
2:20:30 - 2:24:16 (03:45)
Summary
The speaker expresses interest in having conversations with Russian friends about their non-academic perspectives on history, specifically comparing their views with those of the United States. They discuss the translation of various statements, including Putin's dislike for the Elsom people who attempted to embrace democracy, and focus on presenting accurate information in a clear and factual manner.
Episode#248 – Norman Naimark: Genocide, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Absolute Power
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Historian Norman Naimark discusses the challenges of separating opinion and perspective from historical fact and reflects on some of the darker moments of human history while also emphasizing the importance of hope and love.
2:24:16 - 2:25:17 (01:01)
Summary
Historian Norman Naimark discusses the challenges of separating opinion and perspective from historical fact and reflects on some of the darker moments of human history while also emphasizing the importance of hope and love.