Episode
#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
3:05:29
Published: Sat Oct 01 2022
Description
Michael Levin is a biologist at Tufts University working on novel ways to understand and control complex pattern formation in biological systems. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Henson Shaving: https://hensonshaving.com/lex and use code LEX to get 100 free blades with your razor - Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings - LMNT: https://drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack - InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off EPISODE LINKS: Michael's Twitter: https://twitter.com/drmichaellevin Michael's Website: https://drmichaellevin.org Michael's Papers: Biological Robots: https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.00880 Synthetic Organisms: https://tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19420889.2021.2005863 Limb Regeneration: https://science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abj2164 PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (06:40) - Embryogenesis (14:08) - Xenobots: biological robots (27:55) - Sense of self (37:27) - Multi-scale competency architecture (48:58) - Free will (58:27) - Bioelectricity (1:11:44) - Planaria (1:23:33) - Building xenobots (1:47:08) - Unconventional cognition (2:11:39) - Origin of evolution (2:18:42) - Synthetic organisms (2:25:27) - Regenerative medicine (2:29:14) - Cancer suppression (2:33:15) - Viruses (2:38:28) - Cognitive light cones (2:43:03) - Advice for young people (2:47:47) - Death (2:57:17) - Meaning of life
Chapters
A promotion for Henson Shaving, offering 100 free blades with the purchase of a razor, is shared.
00:00 - 03:51 (03:51)
Summary
A promotion for Henson Shaving, offering 100 free blades with the purchase of a razor, is shared. The host also discusses his interest in materials engineering, mechanical engineering, and civil engineering.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The implementation of a physical machine through DNA creates opportunities for evolution to discover and develop without having to start from scratch, thanks to the laws of physics.
03:51 - 10:34 (06:42)
Summary
The implementation of a physical machine through DNA creates opportunities for evolution to discover and develop without having to start from scratch, thanks to the laws of physics. The binary categorization of biology vs physics oversimplifies the complexity of this process.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Scientists have developed "Xenobots," the first ever self-replicating robots made of living cells by engineering cells to form artificial living organisms.
10:34 - 15:59 (05:25)
Summary
Scientists have developed "Xenobots," the first ever self-replicating robots made of living cells by engineering cells to form artificial living organisms. These robots have a multitude of potential applications, from aiding in environmental cleanup to individual medicine.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The agency of materials refers to their ability to retain their shape and display some form of preferences, goals, and memory.
15:59 - 20:13 (04:13)
Summary
The agency of materials refers to their ability to retain their shape and display some form of preferences, goals, and memory. Understanding the currency of motivation, reward, and punishment will help identify the kind of problem space to search when interacting with materials, rather than trying to micromanage them like a puppet.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The concept of intelligence is not limited to individuals, but also exists in complex systems like ant colonies and flocks of birds.
20:13 - 29:06 (08:53)
Summary
The concept of intelligence is not limited to individuals, but also exists in complex systems like ant colonies and flocks of birds. In such systems, there is no central authority or dictator, but rather simple rules governing the behavior of individual agents or cells.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The idea that humans have a true self that doesn't exist elsewhere is not supported by evidence in evolutionary biology and developmental biology.
29:06 - 38:49 (09:42)
Summary
The idea that humans have a true self that doesn't exist elsewhere is not supported by evidence in evolutionary biology and developmental biology. Evolutionary changes often occur by changing the signals that cells give to each other rather than altering the cellular hardware.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Complex systems, like the development process of a tadpole into a frog and engineering processes, are efficient because each level molds the decision-making process of the level below it.
38:49 - 43:35 (04:46)
Summary
Complex systems, like the development process of a tadpole into a frog and engineering processes, are efficient because each level molds the decision-making process of the level below it. The concept of competency and pursuit of goals in engineering is useful in understanding how complex systems work.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast explains how the origin of models of free will can be traced back to the need of organisms to determine their existence and define the boundary between oneself and the world.
43:35 - 51:23 (07:48)
Summary
This podcast explains how the origin of models of free will can be traced back to the need of organisms to determine their existence and define the boundary between oneself and the world.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The most evolvable system is one with the most level of top-down control.
51:23 - 57:00 (05:37)
Summary
The most evolvable system is one with the most level of top-down control. Organisms with top-down control are better equipped to anticipate stimuli and adapt efficiently, whereas we humans are still struggling to master this adaptation process.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The bioelectricity that allows charged molecules to go in and out of a cell's membrane is a privileged computational layer that gives access to the actual cognition of the tissue.
57:00 - 1:01:49 (04:48)
Summary
The bioelectricity that allows charged molecules to go in and out of a cell's membrane is a privileged computational layer that gives access to the actual cognition of the tissue. The components of neurons (ion channels, neurotransmitters, electric synapses) are all older than neurons and multicellularity itself, leading to the question where this complex architecture came from.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The cells in an embryo think about how to solve problems in anatomical space while the brain thinks about solving problems in three dimensions.
1:01:49 - 1:04:48 (02:58)
Summary
The cells in an embryo think about how to solve problems in anatomical space while the brain thinks about solving problems in three dimensions. Many ion channels and gap junctions are voltage sensitive, which makes them act like a network, and many of them can communicate together and produce an electric field that helps drive these developmental process.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This podcast episode delves into the idea of leveraging biology to create a more sophisticated approach to medicine and drugs.
1:04:48 - 1:11:05 (06:17)
Summary
This podcast episode delves into the idea of leveraging biology to create a more sophisticated approach to medicine and drugs. By focusing on the goal states and intelligence of our subsystems, we can shift away from the traditional model of micromanaging chemistry and towards a more advanced methodology.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The cells in our body form electrical networks during embryogenesis, including somatic and stem cells.
1:11:05 - 1:14:12 (03:06)
Summary
The cells in our body form electrical networks during embryogenesis, including somatic and stem cells. Planaria, which have been around for 400 million years, hold the answer to many deep questions.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Planarians, a type of flatworm, have the ability to regenerate their entire body including their brains, which retain their original memories.
1:14:12 - 1:16:40 (02:27)
Summary
Planarians, a type of flatworm, have the ability to regenerate their entire body including their brains, which retain their original memories. This phenomenon offers insight into the potential of regenerative medicine for humans.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Certain drugs can make planarians regenerate with two heads instead of one, and even when these two-headed creatures are cut up into pieces, some of those pieces continue to make two-headed animals.
1:16:40 - 1:21:33 (04:52)
Summary
Certain drugs can make planarians regenerate with two heads instead of one, and even when these two-headed creatures are cut up into pieces, some of those pieces continue to make two-headed animals. This suggests that planarians are capable of storing and passing down regenerative memory through their electrical circuits.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In this episode, the speaker explains how evolution creates problem-solving machines and how the competency of an organism can compensate for junky genes.
1:21:33 - 1:24:54 (03:21)
Summary
In this episode, the speaker explains how evolution creates problem-solving machines and how the competency of an organism can compensate for junky genes.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Xenopus is a very convenient tool due to its ability to breed in the lab and its abundance of tools for researchers making it easy to develop new transcriptional circuits.
1:24:54 - 1:28:43 (03:48)
Summary
Xenopus is a very convenient tool due to its ability to breed in the lab and its abundance of tools for researchers making it easy to develop new transcriptional circuits. However, extensive engineering may obscure the true nature of this species' native cells.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
This transcript delves into the concept of cell tubules, explaining how cells communicate with each other to make tubules and how it's possible to manipulate them to make cells bigger.
1:28:43 - 1:31:45 (03:02)
Summary
This transcript delves into the concept of cell tubules, explaining how cells communicate with each other to make tubules and how it's possible to manipulate them to make cells bigger.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The human brain is not the only way to be sentient and other things like chimeras of human brains, plants or embryos might also have important cognitive status.
1:31:45 - 1:37:54 (06:09)
Summary
The human brain is not the only way to be sentient and other things like chimeras of human brains, plants or embryos might also have important cognitive status. Evolution is good at creating hardware that has a stable baseline mode when left to itself.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker talks about our fundamental understanding of biology and how we will have a hard time recognizing extraterrestrial intelligence.
1:37:54 - 1:44:14 (06:19)
Summary
The speaker talks about our fundamental understanding of biology and how we will have a hard time recognizing extraterrestrial intelligence. Traditional frameworks for identifying extraterrestrial intelligence may not be applicable.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The definition of unconventional cognition changes with time, and what is currently considered unconventional could later become common.
1:44:14 - 1:48:58 (04:44)
Summary
The definition of unconventional cognition changes with time, and what is currently considered unconventional could later become common. Unconventional cognition includes widely used systems like fractals.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker discusses how the domestication of humans by wheat and other things can be defined in different ways, and relates it to unconventional cognition and cellular automata.
1:48:58 - 1:58:02 (09:04)
Summary
The speaker discusses how the domestication of humans by wheat and other things can be defined in different ways, and relates it to unconventional cognition and cellular automata.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
In this episode, the guest discusses the challenge of understanding consciousness and how it differs from other aspects of science, highlighting that the theory of consciousness may take the form of poetry or another abstract format.
1:58:02 - 2:05:42 (07:40)
Summary
In this episode, the guest discusses the challenge of understanding consciousness and how it differs from other aspects of science, highlighting that the theory of consciousness may take the form of poetry or another abstract format.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker discusses the importance of considering our behavior towards animals and the inevitability of evolution in computing.
2:05:42 - 2:15:23 (09:41)
Summary
The speaker discusses the importance of considering our behavior towards animals and the inevitability of evolution in computing.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker discusses the need to understand the embodied intelligence of organs and tissues in order to achieve a different regenerative medicine, and the development of a science of detecting and manipulating the goals of collective intelligences of cells.
2:15:23 - 2:21:23 (06:00)
Summary
The speaker discusses the need to understand the embodied intelligence of organs and tissues in order to achieve a different regenerative medicine, and the development of a science of detecting and manipulating the goals of collective intelligences of cells.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The bioelectrics can be artificially controlled to greatly reduce tumor genesis or normalize the already begun conversion of the cells, providing hope for normalizing cancer cells.
2:21:23 - 2:31:34 (10:11)
Summary
The bioelectrics can be artificially controlled to greatly reduce tumor genesis or normalize the already begun conversion of the cells, providing hope for normalizing cancer cells. However, understanding how the thing is motivated to get made is the only hope to generate new organs or body parts in a reasonable timeframe.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
By focusing on keeping cells harnessed towards organ level goals instead of individual cell goals, the risk of developing a tumor or metastasizing can be significantly decreased.
2:31:34 - 2:38:41 (07:07)
Summary
By focusing on keeping cells harnessed towards organ level goals instead of individual cell goals, the risk of developing a tumor or metastasizing can be significantly decreased. While immune therapy is a great technology, anthropomorphizing cancer cells may not be an effective approach.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Read broadly, work hard, improve through criticism, and ignore everything else to do something new.
2:38:41 - 2:46:53 (08:11)
Summary
Read broadly, work hard, improve through criticism, and ignore everything else to do something new. Young people looking to succeed in school or a career should focus on their abilities, values, and interests to create a life they can be proud of.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The human cognitive light cone allows for goals that are longer than our lifespan, which means that we may have goals that are not achievable.
2:46:53 - 2:52:03 (05:10)
Summary
The human cognitive light cone allows for goals that are longer than our lifespan, which means that we may have goals that are not achievable. Contemplating mortality can help us come to terms with this fact.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker reflects on how the experience of life can make one feel immortal, despite the eventual decay of the body.
2:52:03 - 2:57:24 (05:21)
Summary
The speaker reflects on how the experience of life can make one feel immortal, despite the eventual decay of the body.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
The speaker discusses the exploration of consciousness and the limitations of science in understanding it from a first-person perspective.
2:57:24 - 3:03:59 (06:35)
Summary
The speaker discusses the exploration of consciousness and the limitations of science in understanding it from a first-person perspective.
Episode#325 – Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots
PodcastLex Fridman Podcast
Michael Levin talks about his work and the amazing things he has built.
3:03:59 - 3:05:17 (01:17)
Summary
Michael Levin talks about his work and the amazing things he has built. Charles Darwin's words on the origin of species are also shared.