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Episode

#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
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3:05:19
Published: Thu Oct 18 2018
Description

Nick Kokonas (IG: @nkokonas, TW: @NickKokonas) is the co-owner and co-founder of The Alinea Group of restaurants, which includes Alinea, Next, The Aviary, Roister, and The Aviary NYC. He is also the founder and CEO of Tock, Inc, a reservations and CRM system for restaurants with more than 2.5M diners and clients in more than 20 countries.Alinea has been named the Best Restaurant in America and Best Restaurant in The World by organizations and lists as diverse as The James Beard Foundation, World's 50 Best, TripAdvisor, Yelp, Gourmet Magazine, and Elite Traveler. His restaurants have won nearly every accolade afforded to them.Nick has been a subversive entrepreneur and angel investor since 1996. He spent a decade as a derivatives trader, has co-written three books, and believes in radical transparency in markets and business. His latest effort is The Aviary Cocktail Book, which is perhaps the most gorgeous book I've ever seen. It is self-published, has already pre-sold nearly $1M in copies, and is being released and shipped in October of 2018.We've been trying to get this interview going ever since Nick was of immense help to me for The 4-Hour Chef, so I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. We talk about much more than the restaurant business, including philosophy, derivatives trading, favorite books, and how Nick tends to break every industry he enters in the most productive way possible! Enjoy! This episode is brought to you by 99designs, the global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together. From logos to apps and packaging to books, 99designs is the go-to design resource for any budget.Right now, my listeners can get 50 dollars off a logo and brand identity package from 99designs, plus a free upgrade that lets you promote your project on the platform (an additional 99 dollar value), by visiting 99designs/Tim50.This episode is also brought to you by Charlotte's Web, which makes a CBD oil, a hemp extract, that has become one of my go-to tools. Charlotte's Web won't get you high, but it does have some pretty powerful benefits, and it works with your body's existing endocannabinoid system. Some of the most common uses are for relief from everyday stressors, help in supporting restful sleep, and to bring about a sense of calm and focus.Visit cwhemp.com/tim to take a quick quiz, which will determine the best product for your lifestyle. Charlotte's Web is also offering listeners of this podcast 10% off with discount code TIM.***If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews!For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Visit tim.blog/sponsor and fill out the form.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Chapters
The 99designs platform is offering listeners $50 off their first logo and brand identity package, as well as a free upgrade for additional promotion on the platform worth $99.
00:00 - 03:01 (03:01)
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99designs
Summary

The 99designs platform is offering listeners $50 off their first logo and brand identity package, as well as a free upgrade for additional promotion on the platform worth $99.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
In this podcast, the guest, Joel Stanley, talks about his discovery of a non-psychoactive hemp extract, and how it helped him solve his sleep problems.
03:01 - 11:08 (08:06)
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hemp extract
Summary

In this podcast, the guest, Joel Stanley, talks about his discovery of a non-psychoactive hemp extract, and how it helped him solve his sleep problems. He also introduces Charlotte's Web hemp extract and its naturally occurring terpenes, flavonoids, and other valuable hemp compounds that work synergistically to heighten positive effects.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
David Chang, owner of Momofuku restaurant group, shares how he approaches decision-making by focusing on running towards gaps in information and viewing all his endeavors through the same mindset.
11:08 - 18:04 (06:56)
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Decision making
Summary

David Chang, owner of Momofuku restaurant group, shares how he approaches decision-making by focusing on running towards gaps in information and viewing all his endeavors through the same mindset.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The trading floor was full of a diverse range of characters, from PhDs to butchers turned traders, but it ultimately wasn't the right fit for the speaker, who was fresh out of college and unsure of their career path.
18:04 - 23:33 (05:29)
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Trading, Career
Summary

The trading floor was full of a diverse range of characters, from PhDs to butchers turned traders, but it ultimately wasn't the right fit for the speaker, who was fresh out of college and unsure of their career path.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker shares a fascinating encounter with his unconventional philosopher who invested in him and burned someone's notebook in class as an example.
23:33 - 30:31 (06:57)
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Philosophy
Summary

The speaker shares a fascinating encounter with his unconventional philosopher who invested in him and burned someone's notebook in class as an example.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The host recommends the book The Swerve and shares about taking classes on mock trading to fill in gaps in their education.
30:31 - 39:07 (08:36)
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Trading, Education, History
Summary

The host recommends the book The Swerve and shares about taking classes on mock trading to fill in gaps in their education. They also briefly mention a company called First Options from the past.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker reflects on his time in a fast paced environment, recalling a significant moment of inspiration from Green Span's "Irrational Exuberance" speech and describing moments where he pushed people to the breaking point.
39:07 - 45:57 (06:49)
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Work Culture
Summary

The speaker reflects on his time in a fast paced environment, recalling a significant moment of inspiration from Green Span's "Irrational Exuberance" speech and describing moments where he pushed people to the breaking point.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The host interviews a serial entrepreneur about managing risk and asset allocation in various early-stage startups.
45:58 - 51:11 (05:12)
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Entrepreneurship
Summary

The host interviews a serial entrepreneur about managing risk and asset allocation in various early-stage startups.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker discusses the overwhelming amount of unsolicited and impersonal startup pitches he received which caused him to lose interest in the startup industry.
51:11 - 57:42 (06:31)
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Entrepreneurship
Summary

The speaker discusses the overwhelming amount of unsolicited and impersonal startup pitches he received which caused him to lose interest in the startup industry.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The podcast host shares his experience with the young and good-looking 28-year-old chef, Grant Achatz, who has impeccable cooking skills and would go on for pages about bread service while having an email relationship with the host to receive his feedback.
57:42 - 1:02:40 (04:57)
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Chef Grant Achatz
Summary

The podcast host shares his experience with the young and good-looking 28-year-old chef, Grant Achatz, who has impeccable cooking skills and would go on for pages about bread service while having an email relationship with the host to receive his feedback.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Two individuals discuss their process of starting a restaurant from scratch, detailing the level of trust and communication required to succeed.
1:02:40 - 1:06:37 (03:57)
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Restaurant
Summary

Two individuals discuss their process of starting a restaurant from scratch, detailing the level of trust and communication required to succeed.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
One entrepreneur goes all in on building a restaurant with David Chang, despite telling no one for months.
1:06:37 - 1:15:27 (08:50)
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Entrepreneurship
Summary

One entrepreneur goes all in on building a restaurant with David Chang, despite telling no one for months. Years later, looking back on that decision, it finally feels smart.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The process of designing a restaurant involves practical decisions about the quality of tables, as well as a deep understanding of art, science, and food.
1:15:27 - 1:22:20 (06:53)
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Restaurant Design
Summary

The process of designing a restaurant involves practical decisions about the quality of tables, as well as a deep understanding of art, science, and food. The result is a seamless fusion of different interests and a visually functional space.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The co-owner of the Chicago-based culinary company, Alinea Group, explains the challenges of implementing new ideas in the restaurant industry and how it can lead to employee turnover.
1:22:20 - 1:29:41 (07:20)
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Restaurant Industry
Summary

The co-owner of the Chicago-based culinary company, Alinea Group, explains the challenges of implementing new ideas in the restaurant industry and how it can lead to employee turnover.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The podcast explores how people tend to value things more when they have a small vested interest in them and highlights how this influences the short-seated tables in the restaurant business.
1:29:41 - 1:35:24 (05:42)
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Behavioral Psychology
Summary

The podcast explores how people tend to value things more when they have a small vested interest in them and highlights how this influences the short-seated tables in the restaurant business.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker discusses the centuries-old practice of calling a restaurant to make a reservation and the challenges that come with running a restaurant, including finding new customers and maintaining a loyal following.
1:35:25 - 1:41:18 (05:52)
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Restaurant Industry
Summary

The speaker discusses the centuries-old practice of calling a restaurant to make a reservation and the challenges that come with running a restaurant, including finding new customers and maintaining a loyal following.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The restaurant industry has undergone significant changes over time, with many different styles and trends emerging.
1:41:18 - 1:45:03 (03:45)
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Restaurant Industry
Summary

The restaurant industry has undergone significant changes over time, with many different styles and trends emerging. From traditional dining to fast food to farm-to-table, each evolution has its own unique impact and challenges.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The podcast discusses the advantages and drawbacks of transparency in markets, such as the restaurant industry and trading markets, with examples of how it affects the consumer and the overall experience.
1:45:03 - 1:53:25 (08:21)
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Transparency
Summary

The podcast discusses the advantages and drawbacks of transparency in markets, such as the restaurant industry and trading markets, with examples of how it affects the consumer and the overall experience.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker shares that they were able to increase their restaurant margins from 10-12% to 20-25% in the hospitality industry by making obvious changes such as improving hospitality, booking processes and reducing food waste.
1:53:25 - 1:58:43 (05:18)
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Restaurant Industry
Summary

The speaker shares that they were able to increase their restaurant margins from 10-12% to 20-25% in the hospitality industry by making obvious changes such as improving hospitality, booking processes and reducing food waste.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Trusting your instincts in a trade can feel risky, but sometimes the most obvious decision is the right one.
1:58:45 - 2:04:18 (05:33)
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Trading
Summary

Trusting your instincts in a trade can feel risky, but sometimes the most obvious decision is the right one. Reframing the situation and trusting yourself can lead to success in trading.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker expresses dislike for the internship model and instead suggests assigning independent projects to those who want to do something cool.
2:04:18 - 2:10:44 (06:26)
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Internships
Summary

The speaker expresses dislike for the internship model and instead suggests assigning independent projects to those who want to do something cool.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The host discusses the challenge of attracting and retaining talent for projects and businesses, and how even avid readers can struggle to recall books they've read.
2:10:44 - 2:14:43 (03:58)
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Talent Management
Summary

The host discusses the challenge of attracting and retaining talent for projects and businesses, and how even avid readers can struggle to recall books they've read.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker feels a moral responsibility to reply to the personal notes even if it is not urgent work.
2:14:43 - 2:20:08 (05:24)
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Personal Responsibility
Summary

The speaker feels a moral responsibility to reply to the personal notes even if it is not urgent work. The speaker took 10 years to set up Google alerts, find the blogs, and respond personally to thank them for the write-ups to Alenia.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The host shares his experience about how he informs his colleagues when he is offline and also talks about how important it is for a chef to have a cookbook.
2:20:08 - 2:26:41 (06:32)
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Chef
Summary

The host shares his experience about how he informs his colleagues when he is offline and also talks about how important it is for a chef to have a cookbook.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The cost of printing a cookbook can be high and if publishers are involved, the cost can be even higher.
2:26:42 - 2:35:06 (08:24)
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Cookbook
Summary

The cost of printing a cookbook can be high and if publishers are involved, the cost can be even higher. For chefs, having a physical cookbook is a valuable accomplishment.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The auction process often starts with a low price and gradually increases to generate interest, however starting with a high price and gradually decreasing can create a sense of urgency and result in higher bids.
2:35:06 - 2:40:01 (04:54)
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Psychology
Summary

The auction process often starts with a low price and gradually increases to generate interest, however starting with a high price and gradually decreasing can create a sense of urgency and result in higher bids.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
An unconventional book about The Aviary was created by Nick Kokonas and Grant Achatz.
2:40:01 - 2:45:33 (05:32)
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Book Writing
Summary

An unconventional book about The Aviary was created by Nick Kokonas and Grant Achatz. Martin focused on cooking his way through the entire book while Achatz figured out how to write it in a non-traditional way.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Author shares how he and his team created a cocktail book, which included challenges with photography such as representing fire, and the need to set up their own studio to accomplish their goals.
2:45:33 - 2:48:52 (03:18)
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Photography
Summary

Author shares how he and his team created a cocktail book, which included challenges with photography such as representing fire, and the need to set up their own studio to accomplish their goals.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
The Aviary has created a cocktail book with one of their bartenders that showcases how great ingredients and a well-constructed cocktail can make for wonderful occasions and gifts.
2:48:52 - 2:55:33 (06:41)
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Cocktails
Summary

The Aviary has created a cocktail book with one of their bartenders that showcases how great ingredients and a well-constructed cocktail can make for wonderful occasions and gifts.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
In a discussion about the value of intellectual curiosity, the idea of a message on a billboard is raised, asking if there's something the speaker would want to convey to millions of people.
2:55:33 - 3:00:10 (04:36)
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Intellectual Curiosity
Summary

In a discussion about the value of intellectual curiosity, the idea of a message on a billboard is raised, asking if there's something the speaker would want to convey to millions of people. The conversation ends with an unrelated question about sending weekly email updates.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Promotions for a $50 discount on a logo and brand identity package from 99Designs and a free upgrade for additional promotion on the platform, as well as a non-psychoactive hemp extract called Charlotte's Web that reportedly has more benefits than single compound CBD alternatives, were advertised on the podcast.
3:00:10 - 3:05:11 (05:01)
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Advertising
Summary

Promotions for a $50 discount on a logo and brand identity package from 99Designs and a free upgrade for additional promotion on the platform, as well as a non-psychoactive hemp extract called Charlotte's Web that reportedly has more benefits than single compound CBD alternatives, were advertised on the podcast.

Episode
#341: Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life
Podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show