Episode
#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
2:06:41
Published: Thu Sep 19 2019
Description
"Big Brother isn't watching. He's singing and dancing. He's pulling rabbits out of a hat. Big Brother’s busy holding your attention every moment you're awake. He's making sure you're always distracted. He's making sure you're fully absorbed. He's making sure your imagination withers. Until it's as useful as your appendix." — Chuck PalahniukTristan Harris (@tristanharris) was named by Rolling Stone as one of the "25 People Shaping the World." He was featured in Fortune's 2018 "40 under 40" list for his work on reforming technology, and the Atlantic has called him the "closest thing Silicon Valley has to a conscience."Formerly Design Ethicist at Google, he is a world-renowned expert on how technology steers our decisions. Tristan has spent nearly his entire life studying subtle psychological forces, from early beginnings as a childhood magician, to working with the Stanford Persuasive Technology Lab, and to his role as CEO of Apture, which was acquired by Google.Tristan has briefed heads of state, technology company CEOs, and members of the US Congress about the attention economy, and he's been featured in media worldwide, including 60 Minutes, PBS News Hour, and many more. He is the co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology, which can be found at Humanetech.com, and cohost (with Aza Raskin) of Your Undivided Attention podcast, which exposes the hidden designs that have the power to hijack our attention, manipulate our choices, and destabilize our real world communities.This episode is brought to you by MeUndies, which brings you the softest undies known to man. Whether you like crazy prints or classic black, MeUndies give you the freedom to express yourself comfortably.They're made with soft, sustainable fabric, and they're available in sizes from XS to 4XL.MeUndies has plenty of options for those looking to up their undie game. You can join its monthly membership. You can build a pack of your favorite undies or socks and save up to 30 percent. You can match with your better half if you're into that sort of thing. New prints drop every Tuesday, and members get access to exclusive prints every month. MeUndies has a great offer for listeners of this podcast: Get 15 percent off your first order with free shipping and a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee at MeUndies.com/Tim.This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. The right hire can move your business quantum leaps forward, while the wrong hire can crater it. Luckily, you can rely on LinkedIn Jobs to find you the most relevant, qualified candidates so you can focus on making a hire you're excited about.With five hundred million active members, LinkedIn attracts people every day who want to make connections, grow their careers, and discover new job opportunities. Note that 90 percent of LinkedIn users are open to new opportunities, but not actively scanning job boards. Post a job today at LinkedIn.com/Tim and get $50 off your first job post!***If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews!For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapters
In this episode, Tim Ferriss interviews Sebastian Junger to explore minimalism, living a purposeful life, and the parallels between military service and mountaineering.
00:00 - 00:57 (00:57)
Summary
In this episode, Tim Ferriss interviews Sebastian Junger to explore minimalism, living a purposeful life, and the parallels between military service and mountaineering.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The episode features Tristan Harris, a renowned expert on how technology steers our decisions as he talks about what drew him into his line of work and the founding of the Center for Humane Technology.
00:57 - 05:42 (04:44)
Summary
The episode features Tristan Harris, a renowned expert on how technology steers our decisions as he talks about what drew him into his line of work and the founding of the Center for Humane Technology.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker talks about their fascination with pickpocketing and magic, from observing street performers as a child to attending a workshop on hypnosis, pickpocketing, and magic in Bali in 2016.
05:42 - 09:20 (03:38)
Summary
The speaker talks about their fascination with pickpocketing and magic, from observing street performers as a child to attending a workshop on hypnosis, pickpocketing, and magic in Bali in 2016.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
In contrast to the common belief that magic is simply about deception, it's about exposing the limitations of our biases and perceptual blind spots.
09:20 - 14:50 (05:29)
Summary
In contrast to the common belief that magic is simply about deception, it's about exposing the limitations of our biases and perceptual blind spots. The principle of magic goes beyond choosing from the five habitual things in our minds and is not related to one's level of intelligence or success in life.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
Our minds have recurring processes that often go unnoticed, but they govern our thoughts and actions.
14:50 - 19:18 (04:27)
Summary
Our minds have recurring processes that often go unnoticed, but they govern our thoughts and actions. Awakening involves recognizing our assumptions and guiding principles to make conscious choices.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
In this podcast episode, the speaker discusses the ways our mind traps us into negative thoughts and beliefs and the importance of questioning them.
19:18 - 25:48 (06:30)
Summary
In this podcast episode, the speaker discusses the ways our mind traps us into negative thoughts and beliefs and the importance of questioning them. By realizing the absurdity of these beliefs, we can take responsibility for our own experience and see reality in a more connected and centered way.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The mind quickly adopts new beliefs with utmost certainty, which is why identity-level work is more persuasive when transforming beliefs.
25:49 - 29:57 (04:08)
Summary
The mind quickly adopts new beliefs with utmost certainty, which is why identity-level work is more persuasive when transforming beliefs. Running away from anxiety creates an addiction that results in more anxiety, creating fractal levels of stress in life.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
Language plays a vital role in shaping human cognition and experience.
29:57 - 36:27 (06:30)
Summary
Language plays a vital role in shaping human cognition and experience. Through techniques such as NLP and Byron Katie's work, one can delve deeper into these constructs and create identity level transformations, leading to a more lucid understanding of oneself and the world.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
Through a prompt to look around the room and draw attention to certain people, it becomes clear that our subconscious creates patterns of thoughts, leading to self-doubt, and that the psychology of our attention plays a key role in how we interact with others.
36:28 - 43:07 (06:38)
Summary
Through a prompt to look around the room and draw attention to certain people, it becomes clear that our subconscious creates patterns of thoughts, leading to self-doubt, and that the psychology of our attention plays a key role in how we interact with others.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The words and metaphors used in political messaging can have a significant impact on public opinion and perception of issues, as they shape individual and collective understanding of complex concepts.
43:07 - 46:33 (03:26)
Summary
The words and metaphors used in political messaging can have a significant impact on public opinion and perception of issues, as they shape individual and collective understanding of complex concepts. This is exemplified by the use of vocabulary reframes such as “death tax” and “climate change” by political consultants for different causes.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The only way we can make the choices to avert catastrophes and solve civilization's problems is by gaining an understanding of the code of the human mind and the things that stand in our way.
46:33 - 52:26 (05:52)
Summary
The only way we can make the choices to avert catastrophes and solve civilization's problems is by gaining an understanding of the code of the human mind and the things that stand in our way.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
Motivation and ability are two critical factors in determining whether a person will perform a desirable behavior.
52:27 - 56:51 (04:23)
Summary
Motivation and ability are two critical factors in determining whether a person will perform a desirable behavior. In a podcast episode, the speaker discusses how having these two factors aligned, along with having the right resources, can lead to successfully adopting new behaviors.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The dangers of extremism in technology is depicted in the recommendation of YouTube's algorithm for anorexia videos for teenage girls and adults watching sexual content being recommended videos with young girls and children.
56:51 - 1:02:05 (05:14)
Summary
The dangers of extremism in technology is depicted in the recommendation of YouTube's algorithm for anorexia videos for teenage girls and adults watching sexual content being recommended videos with young girls and children. However, technology is just a tool and can be used in different ways.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The success of a product and business model can lead to the subversion of autonomy and the social fabric.
1:02:06 - 1:08:32 (06:25)
Summary
The success of a product and business model can lead to the subversion of autonomy and the social fabric. The business model here is addiction, as companies use attention-grabbing techniques such as the follow button to keep users engaged and generate revenue.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The transition from an extractive energy economy of fossil fuels to a regenerative energy economy is a challenge that requires policies to make it happen.
1:08:32 - 1:13:58 (05:25)
Summary
The transition from an extractive energy economy of fossil fuels to a regenerative energy economy is a challenge that requires policies to make it happen. Moreover, companies that have a high integrity public square should be rewarded.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
This podcast discusses the ethical implications of shaping 2 billion people's thoughts on specific topics through technology and the challenges in decoupling business models and incentives to make ethical decisions for the well-being of society.
1:13:59 - 1:19:09 (05:10)
Summary
This podcast discusses the ethical implications of shaping 2 billion people's thoughts on specific topics through technology and the challenges in decoupling business models and incentives to make ethical decisions for the well-being of society.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker proposes a world where attention success is decoupled from business success, where the capturing and manipulation of human behavior is removed, and the money is reinvested into renewable human life.
1:19:09 - 1:22:42 (03:32)
Summary
The speaker proposes a world where attention success is decoupled from business success, where the capturing and manipulation of human behavior is removed, and the money is reinvested into renewable human life. The speaker compares this to the decoupling regulation implemented in half of the states in the US for energy companies.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The discussion revolves around finding a sustainable approach between serving public interests as opposed to private interests.
1:22:42 - 1:28:11 (05:29)
Summary
The discussion revolves around finding a sustainable approach between serving public interests as opposed to private interests. The podcast debates on the need to put the money generated from AI back to the people and outlines how capitalism values profit over social harm.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The business model of engagement and advertising used by social media platforms is not beneficial for democracy and shapes cultural values that are not real or useful in the long term.
1:28:11 - 1:32:16 (04:04)
Summary
The business model of engagement and advertising used by social media platforms is not beneficial for democracy and shapes cultural values that are not real or useful in the long term. The externalities of cultural values created by this model can have harmful effects on society.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
This podcast discusses the potential for technology to empower individuals to take mass coordinated action towards real-world issues like inequality and climate change, instead of causing learned helplessness, irrelevance, or passivity through overwhelming distractions.
1:32:17 - 1:36:50 (04:33)
Summary
This podcast discusses the potential for technology to empower individuals to take mass coordinated action towards real-world issues like inequality and climate change, instead of causing learned helplessness, irrelevance, or passivity through overwhelming distractions.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The speaker discusses the challenges of distractibility due to persuasive technology and the need to develop exoskeletons for our paleolithic brains to stay focused.
1:36:50 - 1:40:55 (04:04)
Summary
The speaker discusses the challenges of distractibility due to persuasive technology and the need to develop exoskeletons for our paleolithic brains to stay focused. He also mentions a non-profit organization dedicated to tackling these issues.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The fear of missing something important is a powerful force that drives people to constantly check their phones, even when in do not disturb mode.
1:40:55 - 1:49:55 (08:59)
Summary
The fear of missing something important is a powerful force that drives people to constantly check their phones, even when in do not disturb mode. To address this, it can be helpful to set unique buzz signatures for specific types of notifications and to create a custom do not disturb message that offers the option to let certain important contacts break through the mode.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The inconsistency and unreliability of technology creates underlying anxiety and stress for users, even if these issues only occur 10% of the time.
1:49:56 - 1:54:00 (04:04)
Summary
The inconsistency and unreliability of technology creates underlying anxiety and stress for users, even if these issues only occur 10% of the time. Improved universal design patterns that allow for the scheduling of tasks, as well as displays that conserve pixels to avoid distraction, could help alleviate this anxiety.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
The podcast discusses the challenges of addressing climate change and how our paleolithic brains are not designed to be effective problem solvers in the face of a large-scale issue like climate change.
1:54:00 - 1:59:17 (05:16)
Summary
The podcast discusses the challenges of addressing climate change and how our paleolithic brains are not designed to be effective problem solvers in the face of a large-scale issue like climate change. The guest urges listeners to recognize the limitations of their instincts and embrace technologies that work to minimize their impact on attention and streamline decision-making.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
Tristan Harris shares cool things he has discovered or been pondering over the week, such as new albums, gadgets, and favorite articles.
1:59:17 - 2:03:40 (04:23)
Summary
Tristan Harris shares cool things he has discovered or been pondering over the week, such as new albums, gadgets, and favorite articles. He also emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility for the world we live in and recognizing our biases when faced with big problems.
Episode#387: Tristan Harris — Fighting Skynet and Firewalling Attention
PodcastThe Tim Ferriss Show
MeUndies offers sustainable and comfortable underwear in various designs, and listeners of the podcast can receive 15% off and free shipping with their first purchase.
2:03:40 - 2:06:28 (02:47)
Summary
MeUndies offers sustainable and comfortable underwear in various designs, and listeners of the podcast can receive 15% off and free shipping with their first purchase. Meanwhile, LinkedIn Jobs allows for easy and effective hiring processes by matching your job posts with the most qualified candidates, and first-time users can receive 50% off their first job post on the platform.